[Update, May 2016: In this post on the SOG’s civil blog, Sara discusses two new appellate cases concerning the definition of abuse in the child discipline context.]
[Editor’s note: Today’s post is by Sara DePasquale, a relatively recent addition to the SOG faculty. Sara works in the areas of juvenile law and child welfare, and we are delighted to welcome her to the blog.]
Last Tuesday, Minnesota Vikings running back Adrian Peterson pled no contest to misdemeanor reckless assault after being charged in September with felony child abuse for disciplining his 4 year old son with a switch. Since the charges, he has been on the NFL “Commissioners Exempt List” and unable to play. Nike terminated his contract on Tuesday, and his future with the NFL remains uncertain.
What if Adrian Peterson lived in North Carolina?
The facts as the public knows them are that Adrian Peterson’s son is 4 years old. While he was with his father in Texas last spring, his father disciplined him with a wooden switch, which caused multiple bruises and open cuts on the boy’s hands, thighs, lower back, buttocks, and scrotum. The marks were still present when he returned to his mother’s care in Minnesota. She brought him to a doctor, who made a report to Texas authorities. Adrian Peterson was criminally charged, and there are limited references to a child protective action.
I believe Adrian Peterson would have faced the same legal actions here.
North Carolina has a universal mandated reporting law, requiring any person who has cause to suspect a child is abused, neglected, or dependent to make a report to the county department of social services where the child resides or is found. G.S. 7B-301(a). The bruises and cuts on the child should have resulted in a report to a county DSS, thereby triggering the child protective services action. Upon determining a child is abused, the DSS director must report those findings to the district attorney and law enforcement for possible criminal investigation. G.S. 7B-307(a).
A Parent’s Right to Use Corporal Punishment
Parents have a fundamental constitutional right to care, custody, and control of their children, including the right to discipline them. Peterson v. Rogers, 337 N.C. 397 (1994). However, a state may interfere with a parent’s rights in order to protect a child when a parent is unfit or has acted inconsistently with those rights. Price v. Howard, 346 N.C. 68 (1997). Corporal punishment in and of itself will not result in state interference because it is neither abuse nor illegal. In re C.B., 180 N.C. App. 221 (2006). In fact, absent a school board policy or a parent’s written statement to the contrary, NC allows for the use of corporal punishment by a child’s teacher, principal, or assistant principal so long as excessive force, which is defined as force that causes injury that requires medical attention beyond simple first aid, is not used. G.S. 115C-390.4.
What is the standard when determining if corporal punishment is abuse?
There are no bright line rules; instead, one must look at the facts of each case and consider the totality of the evidence as applied to the definitions of abuse under NC Juvenile and Criminal Codes. In re L.T.R., 181 N.C. App. 376 (2007). Factors to consider include:
- whether there was a disciplinary purpose, and if so the duration, instrument, and amount of force used,
- the child’s age, response, and level of discomfort,
- whether there was injury (if so, of what type and duration) and need for treatment, and
- loss of work/school.
In re L.T.R.; State v. Romero, 164 N.C.App. 169 (2004).
The existence of temporary red marks is not determinative. Scott v. Scott, 157 N.C. App. 382 (2003). The lack of immediate medical attention is also not determinative. See Romero. However, age is given great weight. See Romero and In re L.T.R. compared to In re C.B.
Child Protective Services
In a child protective services action, the court determines if a child is abused, neglected, or dependent rather than determine a parent’s culpability. In this case, the court will decide if Adrian Peterson’s son will be adjudicated neglected and/or abused.
One definition of “neglect” is “a juvenile who does not receive proper care, supervision, or discipline.” G.S. 7B-101(15). Age is a factor a court should consider when determining if the use of corporal punishment results in neglect. For example, a 2 year old whose mother did not believe repeatedly striking him with a belt on his buttocks and thighs was inappropriate discipline was adjudicated neglected. In re A.J.M. , 177 N.C. App. 745 (2006).
There are several definitions of “abuse” in the Juvenile Code, two of which may apply here: a parent who inflicted serious physical injury to his child by other than accidental means, or a parent who used cruel or grossly inappropriate procedures or devices to modify his child’s behavior. G.S. 7B-101(1)a., c. “Serious physical injury” is not defined by the Juvenile Code; however, the juvenile court may look to the Criminal Code for guidance and apply a fact specific analysis when considering all the evidence and factors. A 3 year old who is hit with a brush resulting in a six inch dark bruise lasting one week and causing the child discomfort days later was serious physical injury. In re L.T.R. However, a 13 year old who was beaten with a belt that caused one bruise on his leg and one on his arm was not serious physical injury. In re C.B.
Criminal Actions
In addition to misdemeanor assault on a child under 12 [G.S. 14-33(c)(3) ], Adrian Peterson could have been charged with misdemeanor or felony child abuse. The distinction between them is whether the child suffered “bodily injury” versus “serious bodily injury” or “serious physical injury” by other than nonaccidental means. G.S. 14-318.2; G.S. 14-318.4 . There’s little doubt the child experienced “physical injury.” Whether he suffered “serious physical injury,” which includes an injury causing great pain and suffering, is a question of fact for the judge or jury. Looking at the totality of the evidence, the court of appeals found no error with the determination that “serious physical injury” occurred when (1) a 1 year old was struck with a belt in his forehead by his father, the child cried upon being hit, and a visible bruise resulted. State v. Romero, 164 N.C.App. 169 (2004), (2) an 8 year old was repeatedly struck with a paddle on her buttocks causing her to bleed and resulting in her limping and needing medical care one week later, State v. Williams, 154 N.C. App. 176 (2002), and (3) a 9 year old was hit with a belt for at least 40 minutes resulting in multiple bruises, his being in pain for at least two weeks, and ultimately his hospitalization, State v. Williams , 184 N.C. App. 351 (2007).
Conclusion
Given Adrian Peterson’s son’s young age and the number, location, and duration of bruises and cuts, I believe he would have been adjudicated abused and/or neglected. I also believe this constitutes “serious physical injury” that could support a conviction of felony child abuse. What do you think?
I don’t think it is ever necessary to hit a child with anything other than a hand and then only on the buttocks. It’s called an old fashion spanking, and if used only in rare situations it is usually effective. However, spanking a child every time the child does something wrong defeats the purpose as they will no longer react to it as a punishment, in other words it looses it’s power to deter bad behavior. A red bottom from a spanking never hurt any child and if used correctly is a fairly good tool. Using anything other than a hand on the bottom, in my opinion is abuse and can lead to injury to the child. When angry, care givers often lash out with belts, paddles etc. and tend to hit harder and/or longer than they would if not ,causing physical harm to the child that was not intended. So, in my opinion spanking a child on his or her buttocks while they are fully clothed and then only when nothing else works is the only proper way to use corporal punishment. Anything else is abuse.
Wrong, Ms. Lane. I never got in trouble, and my kids never got in trouble not because we were afraid of the law, it was because we were afraid of our Daddy whipping our butt. Not with a hand, which has enough mass to bruise or even break a bone, but with a switch which weighs only a few ounces but has enough velocity to “warm that tail up,” without doing any physical harm. I switch my boys much because they knew if they talked back, lied, told on anybody, didn’t do what I said ect. it meant immediate butt warming. Most of the people that you see in court are the victims of bad, negligent parents that didn’t discipline their child
Ms. Peacock please email me at mflores@lsenergia.com
my children and I were victims and I need advice please
Right on Mr. Peacock! I raised 3 boys, and I was never embarrassed to take them in public….. They knew discipline and respected the rules because of it! Those that receive a screaming at or an occasional tyrant beating are abused not those that are disciplined in a proper consistent manner for bad behaviors. Thank god NC does accept normal corporal punishment. My boys are better for it today!
My mom uses a switch.it causes welts,bruises,and sometimes bleeding.is that dicipline or abuse?she thinks the bible says to hit your kids.I attempted suicide once for that.
One time she found out I cut myself and she beat me with a switch.
Sara DePasquale, the author of this post, asked me to post this reply: You may want to read more about parental discipline and abuse in this new post: When Parental Discipline Goes Too Far, It’s Child Abuse (http://civil.sog.unc.edu/when-parental-discipline-goes-too-far-its-child-abuse/). If you believe you are in need of child protective services, you can contact your county department of social services and make a self-report about your situation at home.
I’m sorry. Please know that the Bible says Spare the rod Spoil the child. But that doesn’t mean beat your child. I pray that you can overcome your hurt and to not pass it onto your children.
The Bible does not say spare the rod and spoil the child. You won’t be able to find that verse it’s not their.
Anna, the exact phrase word-for-word is not in Scripture, but the meaning is loud and clear in Proverbs:
“Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him.” -Proverbs 22:15
“He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.” -Proverbs 13:24
“Do not withhold correction from a child, for if you beat him with a rod, he will not die. You shall beat him with a rod, and deliver his soul from hell” -Proverbs 23:13-14.
“The rod and reproof give wisdom, but a child left to himself brings shame to his mother. Correct your son, and he will give you rest; yes, he will give delight to your soul” -Proverbs 29:15, 17
Yes it says that but some take it to mean a shepherd’s rod which was used to GUIDE the sheep. Not beat them. We tell our children not to hurt others and then we hurt them? Why do parents get off? If anyone else did it to someone,even an adult,they would be in trouble!
Bravo Christine! I never resorted to any form of physical, angry communication . I reasoned with my child. The Bible does say, “… let us reason together ….” and “be angry and sin not.”
Do parents realize what children learn by this act of “physical communication?” I know what corporeal punishment is, and it did far worse evil than good. It doesn’t teach “respect,” it teaches fear, resentment, or anger. The parent who does not resort to physical violence/communication, will be the parent for whom the child will lay down its life.
You are in my opinion very right with your beliefs. The Bible doesn’t mean l don’t think you have to use force with whipping. To me it means sitting down with your children and explaining things to them and create a loving relationship. If they get whippings they think hitting is the way to solve problems! ❤️❤️??
Christine, I agree with you 100%! I am a survivor of my parents who used that verse to justify beating me. The “rod” means discipline and there are many forms of discipline that doesn’t include hitting your child, including “spanking” the child’s butt with your hand! It’s way too easy to lose control and hurt the child. I worked in a large hospital in the pediatric intensive care unit and frequently saw the results of someone “spanking” a child and went too far. I didn’t raise my son with corporal punishment but he knew that if he chose to do something he knew he wasn’t supposed to there would be consequences. It was swift and not open for debate. He never got in trouble with the law, has manners, says yes ma’am and no ma’am, yes sir and no sir, opens doors for ladies, graduated college, is dependable and courteous, is married and raising 3 teenagers who are also caring, compassionate people and no one has put their hands on any of them. I remember thinking when I was being whipped and hit, why it was ok for them but, if I got upset with someone and hit them, I would be in a heap of trouble. Just sayin.
The bible is fiction and should not be used as an argument for anything. There’s 100 different books explaining different stories about different gods. None of you are right. Get over it and stop using it rationalize your violent behavior.
That’s abuse and nobody should ever put there hands on a child..
True !
Whether or not it’s legally abuse depends on how severely she beat you, but it is certainly not good parenting, whether from the point of view of common sense or modern psychology. People who attempt suicide will not be persuaded to value life, or their own life or situation, more by being subjected to more pain. And if reaction to severe punishment was one of the reasons you wanted to kill yourself, how would another beating deter you?
My dad’s girlfriend whooped my sister Lily and brother Carson just for finding some stickers that she don’t use and has had since January and she whooped them for that. Can she do that?
My 6 year old son tells me his mother and step father “paddle” him. what do I do about that? is it abuse?
No she can not sorry I am writing a paper and I am just now seeing this almost a year later. A girlfriend should never put her hands on any child other than her own if she chooses. Report her
“Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted”.
Abuse sweetie.. the harmer will always try to justify their actions. It’s called manipulation. If your here researching this… it’s because you know in your heart it’s not right.!
then she didn’t use a switch it was a branch……a switch doesn’t cause you to bleed in any manner i got but butt whooped when i did something wrong.I thank God for my beatings because i wouldn’t be what i am today.
It’s clearly abuse and depending on the severity of the wounds, the parent(s) should be charged with either misdemeanor child abuse or felony child abuse.
I wish I didn’t have similar experiences. I can validate personally and professionally you have a right to your feelings no one should be trying to steal that from you. The idea that our younger years doesn’t leave an imprint for the rest of our lives is not based in logic.
That is actually illegal and goes against your 8th amendment, ““Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted”. Also the Holy Bible says nothing about hitting or hurting anybody, in fact it says the opposite. Child abuse is punishable by law in the U.S.. I recommend that you find law enforcement. and/or an attorney.
Hi Ariana – I’m so sorry to read your post. I was reading the others and feeling sick to my stomach how they feel they need to use violence to teach a child a lesson. This was so very hurtful to so many of us. I feel for you.
My mom is Latina and she slapped my and caused a massive bruise that you can see the imprint of her hand. Is that abuse?
My mother looked me dead in the eye and laughed in my face, when she saw me attempting to hurt myself.
To say that “most of” of the people you see in court are the victims of bad, negligent parents that didn’t discipline their child – is an ignorant and “sweeping generalization” Do you work in the court consensus of in the department of logistics for this type of thing? Probably not. But one thing I, myself can concede is – your statements are meant to “justify” your parents physical abuse and your own with your children. Switches and “weapons” are used on insolent donkeys and animals – not
helpless children. In fundamental Christianity, things are taken literally and out of context. What “Rod” did Moses use to part the Red Sea? A whipping rod? Here’s a better question for you Mr. Peacock … Why didn’t Adam and Eve LITERALLY die when they ate the fruit of the literal tree of the knowledge of good and evil? God said “in the very day you eat of it you shall surely die”. They lived 800 years longer and had 3 kids. Was God the liar?
or was the story meant to be taken … other than literally? Admit the Truth… and maybe your grandchildren won’t be abused or abuse their children.
I agree Lori.
Some Christian men read in the Bible that if you beat a child he won’t die. They beat a boy and he died. You know where they ended up. The scripture must have meant something different than they were thinking. The child lost his life. They should have had to lose their life in a painful way also.
Not ONLY is the state of society in an atrocious state because FEMINISM removed fathers from the equation (and, sorry, mothers are NOT equipped to handle the consistent, “uh oh” reactions in children that are necessary for them to think twice about consequences of behavior, but disallowing the disciplining of wives from the equation has only added to the disgraceful way in which women behave. Are there a percentage of the equation that will IRRESPONSIBLY utilize that right and do damage to the family members they’re charged with loving and protecting? Absolutely – but this blanket attempt at REMOVING HUMAN NATURE from men, women and children is as effective as the war on drugs has been – only with far worse consequences for society.
Abuse laws have been in stringent effect since the late 50s – has it STOPPED child abuse? Domestic violence? No. If anything, it’s had a two-fold unforeseen detriment. 1. Abusers are more careful to not get caught, increasing the pressure on their victims to remain silent or else; and, 2. Children no longer grow up with the security of a structured and boundaried environment (which is as CRUCIAL to well-rounded development, by the way, as love and nurturing care is) so we have a HOST of new maladies: A massive percentage of “adults” report some for of anxiety disorder – don’t quote me but the latest stat was something like 78% –
School shootings, gender confusion to the point of new psychological definitions; and, so little role models for HEALTHY families that even straight, traditional minded boys who WANT to be a pillar of strength, integrity and protection for their future wives and children, have neither a clue where to start or any idea where to find a REAL woman to marry to create that family with.
This, folks, is NOT societal or civil progress. Our bleeding hearts have created generations of lost, misguided, ineffective at best – criminal at worst, grown-ups in age number only. NOT the responsible, contributors of days past.
Say what you want, and you will as your opinion is an emotional one, not an intellectual one if you would argue with what you see on the news every day, but never before in the history of civilization has this world been such an irreparable mess.
The Bible says nothing about women being disciplined their husbands. WRONG. Being a submissive wife is called for in the Bible and that doesn’t mean much more than being respectful to your husband and allowing him the benefit of the doubt in decisions because that is his job as the head of the household. Being a submissive wife also does not anywhere in the Bible give the husband the right to abuse, disrespect, or put fear into his wife. Otherwise, I concur with what you’re saying. Except that there are churches that live, teach and understand the family dynamic based on Scripture. So, boys who want to be a true Christian husband can be just that if he chooses to seek it and pray about it. And, I’m not surprised the world is “worse” and you shouldn’t be either. Read Revelation; read the entire Bible and it’s prophesized there already. It will only get worse until Jesus comes back.
I agree with you on the poor effect of the war on drugs, and can also see how making more actions labeled as abuse punishable by law will cast it into the shadows, but on the other hand striking another human is assault. Should children really have less protection than adults?
Kate – The world has actually been much worse with much more starvation and suffering than today. You’re a sucker for the news and that you point a finger at others for not using an intellectual argument while arguing that the bible says people should strike their wives and children. Who gets to hit an punish the men then? Are they your God too? We definitely agree with the sadness in the world but to think parents through the guide of a fictional book can administer violence to create healthy humans is flat out wrong.
Discipline of wives? Have you lost your mind? You’re admitting you think it Is ok to hit your wife? You think you can discipline a grown woman?
When God told them they would die, it was meant literally as “die”. Before being disobedient, Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden – Heaven in other words. They had never sinned. They were perfect and would never die. Once they sinned by disobeying God, they were thrown out into the world and were mortals. They were the first to sin. The penalty of sin is death. Death of not just the physical body, but their souls could no longer live in eternal bliss (Garden of Eden; Heaven) in God’s presence. So be it until the coming of Jesus Christ. His perfect Holy blood (he never sinned==the first human not to sin since Adam and Eve) “covers” all our sins. That s why the Bible says it is only through Jesus Christ we can be saved; in other words, the only way we will not die. Our bodies will die and our souls will sleep, until our resurection later when we are given back our bodies in perfection and we live with God in Heaven for eternity. So, yes, the very day that Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil they sinned and that means they will surely die.
The bible says to be absent in the body is to be present with the lord sweetheart
Amen to that! They have no respect for teachers parents or each other! Generation of kids ruling the parents! Really sad!
Wrong, Mr. Peacock. If you “switch your boys much”, you have failed. Effective discipline is lasting. No need for much of it.
I tend to disagree with this. My youngest was cottled by his momma EVERY time he got in trouble, and because of that he has spoiled child syndrome. Hes violent, disrespectful and disobedient. The turning point was AFTER his last visit to a prestigious institution that costed me hundreds of thousands!!!! They told me what I already knew, physical discipline is NOT BY ANY MEANS or DEFINED IN THE DSM as child abuse. And was also that I was a damn good father and provided a perfect structured environment for him because I do administer physical discipline. His mother and I are now divorced and HEY, GUESS WHAT!! Thanks to my and my new fiances discipline hes straightened out 10 fold and DOES NOT I REPEAT DOES NOT resent her or I, has no anger towards us, in fact is always very age appropriately playful, always laughing, smart as hell, and if asked would go to any heights for us. And IS WILLING TO DO ANYTHING to help out our farm and our family. To include anything possible to help his brother. Fuck yall that say pansy ass reasoning and talking is the only way. Thats bullshit from bleeeding incompetent idiots and should have NEVER been introduced into our society in the first damn place. And of course no fuckin shit obviously if your child is on the virge of suicide you shouldn’t beat their ass, NO you retards!!! You sit down and talk to them and try to figure out whats got them there and try to seek appropriate treatment and help. You can’t generalize that if a child is considering suicide that they’re going to be beat because thats wrong as hell. And before you ask me to check my credentials and how i know this..let me enlighten your simple bleeding heart pansy brains. I am in my 3rd year of a Bachelors in Criminal Justice and have also studied Law.
Well Mr Corbin, I think you should be severely disciplined for not being able to spell correctly or even communicate properly. Who is going to teach you??? As for your fiancé… she has absolutely no right to touch your child and could (and should) easily be prosecuted for that!
Sounds to me like how one might treat farm animals
There is support Mr. Peacock, that maybe your definition of discipline is within the realm of controlled. Others define it as any situation where they lost their temper and began a beating of their children. I tried spankings that were controlled in the beginning, but there was no evidence that the spanking changed their behavior. We ended up finding discipline that worked for curtailing negative behavior and it varied with each one.
My dad was a very strong man ( and southern Baptist minister, who firmly believed in ‘Spare the rod and Spoil the child. When he whipped me, he always told to go put a pair of pants on. If I hadn’t the switch would’ve deep. He cut 3 limbs from a sycamore tree, about as big as a broom stick, but he only used 1 at a time, until it was too small to hit with, then he grabbed the next one. By the 3 rd 1, I collapsed. It had stopped hurting, I didnt even flinch. He told to pick up the broken pieces. 15 minutes later, I still hadn’t moved. He says, u got 3 minutes or I cut 3 more and we start again. That was friday monday in PE at school the cuts open up playing ball, and blood soaked throgh shirt. They called social services. Nothing changed.If beating worked, I’d be the best kid in world. I left home because I would’ve killed him before he beat me that way again. Hand on the tail yes if necessary. After 5 or 6 years old. Beatings are for parents who don’t know any better.
Amen!
When a woman gives birth to that beautiful newborn baby they raise it. Why would someone even get the thought to even laying a finger on that child? It’s abuse. Not only that but if that’s how you raise your child, for as long as you are taking care of them they will be afraid of you because I know how it feels to run away from a parent in fear of getting hit. Hitting or putting any physical force on a child is not discipline, it’s just wrong on so many levels. How would you feel if someone were to hit your child because they did something wrong or something that was not right? I’m sure you would feel angry, and I’m not comparing that to the situation where you would hit your child but either way a parent or a stranger hitting a child isn’t right and is unfair to the child. Thankfully in some states there are laws against that but at the same time that law isn’t qualified in other states of America. It doesn’t happen just in America, I know that. It happens everywhere. A lot of parents who use this way of “discipline” also tend to hit their child out of anger which is definitely a red flag. For those who say who say it is the “proper way,” think twice. The proper way would be to take something away that they use and care for (pets isn’t what I mean) like phones. That’s called grounding a child and that’s the way it should be. Yes, grounding does not work on all kids but it’s the right way. It’s way better than hurting a child. Lastly if your those type of parents who hit their child imagine this: you’re really old and your child is taking care of you and a friend comes by who is new to the whole parenting stuff and they ask your kid what did your mom or dad or moms or dads do when you did something bad? They’ll say my mom would hit, spank, whip, slap, punch, or use any other type of force on me. For me, I would feel forever ashamed. By they way this is just my opinion and everyone has one so thanks for reading mine.
Be careful about who you let babysit your child also. Find out about how they believe children should be treated. I had a so called friend watch my daughter for half an hour and she abused my child while I was gone. I was shocked. She was a baby still in diapers and she took her diaper off and whipped her with a spatula. It left cuts on her buttocks. She rolled around the floor in pain and scrapped her head. All that because she didn’t want to take a nap. I was gone for half an hour. People can be twisted.
My mother hits me in the face with either her hand or her fist and every time I try to talk to the cops they don’t do anything about it and like today she kicked me out and I’m only 15!
She definitely can’t “kick you out” (except for a brief time, as a kind of time-out if the area is safe and the weather is reasonably warm and dry). You are under 18 and your parents are responsible for you no matter how you behave. However, if you are consistently uncontrollable and your parents take you to Family Court and prove to a judge that you cannot be controlled, you may be placed in a juvenile residential facility.
Oittle Richard was kicked out at 13 years old for being gay
Im dealing same issuse and she pushed me to floor pulled hair before Believ me
Jade, I hope you are doing better?
Where do you live, Jade . Send me email at anna_T@knology.net
Why do we hurt children at all? Children?
Am I the only one who thinks they should be cherished and loved? Am I the only one crying when I read these comments about how it is okay to use a switch, or belt, or spoon, or hand to hit children. Aren’t children the most precious things in the world? More precious than anything else, more precious than money or oceans or public perception? They are our future. They are who the world will be handed over to. Do we want to teach them that it is okay to hit someone as a punishment? Do we want to teach them that it is okay to hurt their own children?
I understand that everyone has different opinions on this, and that is their right as people; to believe different things. After reading pages and pages on this topic I can see points for both sides. People have claimed that spanking is not the same as abuse, and some children simply don’t listen to reason. They’ve said that they tried to teach their children that society does not allow them to break rules, that everything cannot always go their way, and that they want them to know how to ‘bend not break’. Some say its the only way to get them to listen.
There are also negatives. The scars that some face from what they believe to be their abusive childhood. The PTSD and constant paranoia and mental illness caused by these pains. The broken relationships of ‘parent and child’ of when the child has grown up and has realised that it was wrong, or that they feel betrayed. The cycle of continued hurt passed down to the next generation who believe it is ‘okay’ to hit a child or worse. The belief that discipline can be an excuse for abuse.
How can we accept spanking or ‘discipline’ if some people face the negatives of it? Is it not worth it to spare millions from abuse, by those who use discipline and brutal spanking as an excuse? I’m not saying that spanking is incorrect entirely, I do not believe it myself but I also have heard accounts of it being similar to a shocking tap. I’m saying that it is not always like that, and there is a line to be drawn between spanking and abuse.
Shouldn’t we stop this type of punishment, if only to dissuade abusers? Wouldn’t it be worth it if there were less out there with no excuses left in their arsonel? I understand that not all abuse would stop… But isn’t it worth it to stop all spanking if there is only a chance to make the smallest dent in it? There are other ways to punish children, whole books written about it and childcare workers who understand the ins and outs of child pyschology. Can’t we stop for a minute and consider the big picture?
In my eyes, children are innocent. They are like blank slates, with a small amount of imprinted personality from genetics, and the rest is up to how they are nurtured. I’m a firm believer in the nurture part of the nature/nurture debate, although nature does play a part I think that how we raise our children has a greater impact. Isn’t it our duty to raise children with love and structure? To teach them all we know about lives, about how the world is a beautiful place, and that it is our duty to foster that? Children are without bias, without hate, they are beautiful gifts, far beyond anything we deserve. Can we not stop this madness, abuse perhaps, and find another way?
Are we not smart enough to find a way outside of pain, and perhaps fear, to discipline our children? As the founders of art, and technology, and electricty, and science… we are capable of amazing and astounding feats. Can we not find another way without hurting the most precious things on the planet?
Children are beautiful gifts that need some structure. Structure DOES include physical discipline. I was whooped ALOT as a child and GUESS WHAT?!?!?!? I HAVE NO RESENTMENT towards my parents, as a matter of fact I thank them for the way i was raised and taught not to be a spoiled, entitled little shit like todays kids. And I served 15yrs in the Military with the old way of Military training and discipline. I am extremely close to my parents. No anger towards them. I would MOVE MOUNTAINS for my parents to ensure they’re okay
I do believe the use of discipline that is aimed at physically hurting a child is wrong and often is abuse. When someone who outweighs their child by 100-200 lbs and is much taller and stronger punishes a child by any physical method there is a possibility of harm. Parents do often spank their children when angry and don’t recognize at the time they have caused real injury to their child how can they be OK to bring out the same punishment again. I am concerned by someone who pulls their childs’ hair, hits them in the head, pulls their ears, spanks or uses another method to inflict pain. I think you teach nothing. That child might learn to be afraid of you and to do fewer things around you to minimize that but the only lesson is that hurting them is OK and it’s also Ok to do the same themselves later. All children deserve to feel loved and protected by their parents. It’s quite confusing to have a parent hurt you and then hug them and tuck them in bed. It is a form of disrespect. My children did very well and are all independent, productive and educated adults who are good people. I spoke to them from an early age about what they could and couldn’t do and I provided early discipline that was consistent. It didn’t involve speaking or any sort of physical punishment. Children have tons of energy, especially when small, and need a way to use it that’s fun and safe. They need a schedule and a parent should have an idea of what brings on behavior that is unwanted and to redirect them. It’s a lot of work, much more than just spanking a child for any behavior that a parent dislikes. I agree with others who say that inflicting pain on a child isn’t any better than doing the same thing to any adult. It’s actually worse as far as I am concerned because they can more easily be hurt. It’s the job of the parent to raise a kind, respectful and productive adult who treats their children in the same way he or she would want to be treated.
My mom uses a wooden spoon and sometimes a heavy wooden rolling pin, when she gets mad enough the closest piece of cloth she can find. Sometimes she throws things. she only hits in the butt, sometimes the head or knuckles. Knuckles if we do something bad w/ our hands like hit someone. Sometimes she throws things, they don’t usually hit though. My dad does’t often do anything, sometimes he jokingly does improv and claps his hand to make a hitting noise. Sometimes he pretends to chase us. When it’s real, it’s light on the butt or hard somewhere else. Once he grabbed my legs and kind of flipped me so I banged my head on the floor, I end up on the floor. But, is it still abuse if there’s no cut?
My mother calls me out of my name, she used to beat me with everything she put her hands on, she would beat me until blood gushes out of my body, and she enjoys it. She would tell me that when I was born, a friend of hers said that she(my mother) was going to regret letting me live. Sometimes she would say that she didnt want any girls, atleast I did not feel bad on that because we are here wrether she liked it or not. I am 28 years old and I am so far behind on what a 28 year old should be doing. I wanted to drive at 16 years old, she told me that I wouldnt pay attention to the road, based on my ADD and my Autism, and I know many people with these condition can drive better than the people who doesnt have that problem, she told me that she might teach my younger sister to drive but not me. I asked my older sister to teach me, it was the same thing. Back to my mother, she would belittle me and tell me that if I am alone in the street that a prostitute would beat me to make me sell my body. The only way I am going to survive is by laying on my back. She hit me with a belt yesterday. I want to live in my own place, but I feel trapped. I am trying to find another job at Target, as a truck loader. I hope I get so I can get out of here.
The ages of my beating was, 3 yrs- 17yrs old
I came to a thought that my mother do not love me.
An no one can tell me any better, aint no way in hell that if a mother loves their child she would never do such a thing.
She is a different person in the public, but, behind closed doors.
I do want to be very successful.
She does love you that is why she was beating you because she knew you can be better.That is why she beat you to be successful.
I’m sorry you’re having to deal with that. I’m proud of you for working and striving the get your own place!! And for not hitting back. That is honoring your parent and you’ll be blessed for it. Hang in there!
Yes, baby, this is abuse. I’m so sorry and hope that you seek and find help.
My mom is a preschool teacher and I can remember after my parents broke up she started hitting my brothers and I significantly more than what she used to. When my two older brothers left for university, it was just my little brother and I and, hell, we would get a beating for something so insignificant. Sometimes I was able to see the hate in her eyes or sometimes she would just be breathing heavy, panting even and I just wanted to kill myself or get as far as I can from home. I remember this one time I took a knife and I pushed it against my stomach just to see what it feels like if I really did do it. This one Sunday afternoon my mom went out with her friends and my little brother and I were supposed to get ready for school and when she came back we were playing games and we quickly switched everything off but somehow she noticed and barged into our room hitting us with a belt. The next morning she noticed we didn’t prepare for school so she told us she wanted to talk to us in her room and I knew it was a fucking trap so I ran outside and yelled for help. My mom came outside and said that she wasn’t going to hurt me and so she manipulated me into going into her room. That day my mom took a big serving metal spoon and hit my brother and I on our butts because it would no noticeable elsewhere. I couldn’t walk properly or sit properly for whole fucking week or two. Sometimes I still cry because my brother was only 10 whilst I was 15, he didn’t deserve any of that shit, it has affected him in ways that go beyond physical. He was still wetting his bed at the age of 14. My mom would never dare to think that maybe, just maybe she was the cause of it. As for me I went through a lot of weird things like bullying classmates because of their religion but then becoming friends with them, which portrays how my mom would hit us and show hate but the week later she would be super nice and sweet. I remember I would punish the puppy we had because it excreted I’m the house, I would tie it up and kick him a few times, it was like I was imitating what my mother would do. I regret doing that to our puppy, I regret it with all my heart, but yeah I guess I thought it was normal to get insulted or hit any other day because of something my brother or I did wrong. Sorry for this lol waaay too long
When a 4 year old is spanked and has red welts from the person’s hand on him is it considered child abuse
Hi, I am Calvin and I was just wondering if there should be any force at all when trying to handle your child. force in which you hold them to the ground or make it to were they cant move. My son was talking to me and was making a smart ass remark and tried to take something from me and i push that thing into their face. was this wrong?
So if a parent slaps her child across the face and makes her bleed out of, “discipline” is that a abuse?
YES !!!!!!!
I believe what you have said is totally true in my opinion also !
Roberta Lane: I totally agree with you!
Also, spanking should be an extension of love. When a parent is angry and trying to spank, it can go really wrong.
I want to hold my stepfather accountable for the sever anquish he caused my brother, my twin sister and I.
He went to the junkyard and pulled the chrome siding off vehicles and used this to beat us, 88 lashes. To make matters worse he would tell us we would be beaten but he wouldn’t tell us when. We were held in suspense for days, the longest was two weeks.
For two weeks my twin and I suffered headaches and vomited after some of our meals. I vomited one morning at school in the middle of class.
My twin developed a bleeding ulcer not long after that beating.
His torments were evil and meant to cause us mental, emotional and physical damage.
When one of us got a beating he made the other two stand and watch the event.
His method of beating was too extreme to be carried out in our home so he would drive us to his friends home located on the outskirts of town.
This is only the abuse. He enslaved us unmeasurably, criticised publicly and withheld sleep for his own satisfaction.
My brother, twin and I have never married and have not held a job for longer than a year. We have the life long effects that come from a decade of horror.
Is a cable abuse like vacuum cleaner cable or extension cord.
Roberta, thank you. My dad burnt me with a cooker cap and I had a mark for a month. Thanks for letting me know.
Really when your kids destroying your house and wrecking the principles office let him go with a hug and when he blows some place up like a school cry on tv you didnt do enough
Ms. Lane: Why is bare-bottom spanking abuse?
The statement “anything else is abuse” is not a fair statement. There are plenty of parents who use something other than their hand to discipline their children and they certainly do not abuse them.
I saw the pictures. I read the narrative. In the Peterson case you have physical injury but it is not serious. Cases #2&3 above required hospitalization. This case did not. Case #1 did not require hospitalization but the defendant there was in an angry rage beating his girlfriend and hit the child on the way to hitting his girlfriend. Little sympathy there. In the Peterson case we have a father disciplining his son and while we might not all agree with the method, we should all be able to agree it is not “serious injury” to the extent he should be convicted of a felony.
The child was four. Almost still a baby. You shouldn’t hit an older child that way, much less a four year old. It’s abuse. He deserves what he gets. I know, my son was beat by his father for years for bad behavior. It did not help his behavior and he hates his father. I finally left with him, but I should have done it way sooner. He is scarred emotionally forever. So no corporal punishment to that extreme does not work.
Sue Glover I agree with you 100% just last night my son in law smacked my 4 year old granddaughter in the mouth and made her bleed I was so furious and now I know why she don’t want to be with them and wants to be with me…
I have a sibling that did this to her 8year old son….so sad, and none of my family gets that this is abuse….
I have a similar situation with my grandchildren. One is 9 and the other 6. The mother hits them with a broom, hit the youngest several times in the face and made the child’s nose bleed, uses belts and spoons other times, spends endless hours laying in bed texting, face time, etc. Does not do their laundry, the oldest does it and rarely makes meals so the oldest does it for both children. They ran out of food and used pretzels to smear peanut butter on. They clean the house doing all clean up and vacuuming, scrubbing floors, toilet bowls, sinks and showers using chemicals while she barks orders at them.
Recently the children go into a physical fight and the mother told the oldest she was sending him to a juvenile home. The mother does not work, is not married and relies on the child support from the two dads to pay the Bill’s.
Both fathers are out of picture because she threatened them with some type of recourse if they try to see their child.
I see some of this as neglect, mental abuse and physical abuse. IS IT?
By way several years ago the authorities were contacted because a boyfriend was a busting one of the children. There was no investigation because they had friends in extremely high places. The mother denied the party contact with the children for a long time.
I agree.
I DO agree with this – our son is four and get smacks on the clothed bum and never more than a few (I think it’s the ritual rather than the act that drives the message home anyway). Until they’re about 7 or 8, to me anyway, they’re still “babies” … Switching a 4 year old and hitting his scrotum? (Let me take a switch to YOUR scrotum, then you can tell me it wasn’t abuse) To me, I’d do the same to that pathetic excuse for a father. PS – there is NOTHING serious enough for a four year old to do that warrants that and given the intellect of sports professionals of that type, he likely mistook a genuine emotional need of the child as a defiance – I’ve seen it before. And, you’re right about something else, Sue – THAT … or any of the types of things these kids have posted on here … is NOT corporal punishment, it’s abuse. Corporal punishment has specific levels of occurence: 1. The parent tells the child what the punishment is for and makes sure the child understands; 2. The child (and this is a big one for pre-teens and teens) AGREES to accept the discipline, understanding that there are consequences to the actions; 3. The actual discipline which is done NEVER in the angry moment but after sufficient “cool down” time by the parent; and, 4. What is called the “after care” – ie. making sure the child knows it was for their own good, the discipline is a critical aspect to being a responsible adult and that they are still and always loved.
Anything other than that is a BEST ineffective discipline —at worst, abuse.
Not serious??? Adrian Peterson stripped a little 4yo boy naked and whipped his bare penis with a switch! He whipped him so hard he was bleeding! If that isn’t child abuse I don’t know what is. I don’t have a problem with swatting a bare bottom but beating a child’s penis until it bleeds is sick.
I don’t believe in hitting children, but don’t necessarily think it’s clear as to what’s abuse and allowable discipline, in essence requiring a balance of various factors. These cases involving pro athletes now create a whole different logic, more based on sponsors sensitive to lost profits not the welfare of children. In juvenile court and criminal court cases courts don’t prohibit the perpetrators from working if they’re not incarcerated and want them working upon release. The typhoon like swell of public opinion about celebrities creates waves that sponsors and associations have to react to (see the penn state scandal where a serial pedophile tragedy became a story about a football coach) With 24 hr media outlets always fanning at the flames of controversy we have sit back a be logical. Peterson can learn from this, as he was raised with this type of discipline, but we don’t have to go crazy to vilify him. I doubt using him as an example will deter others who use the form of discipline.
You’re not looking at this from the child’s perspective. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Punishment for the adult will deter the crime. If not they have some marbles missing. They should not get away with that.
Hummm. Interesting comments from ALL here. But, number 1.) You should NEVER strike your child when you’re angry. 2.) All punishment meted out should be explained prior to initiation. 3.) Alternative punishment should be utilized whenever feasible. 4.) Any assault on another with an object becomes aggravated assault, which may and can cause serious bodily harm and/or death, and should lead to jail time for the assailant. I got some VERY serious “butt-whippings” as a child that had little or no effect on me. To be painfully honest, I was a pretty rotten kid. In fact, whippings made me dislike my mother more each time, and exhibit bad behavior more often. Later on in life, as a father I seriously chastised my children, depending upon the types of behavior, whenever necessary, and it was far and few in between. They told me that it was far worse for them to lose privileges than it was to receive corporal punishment, because they could get it over with if the latter was imposed. And, dads should NEVER strike daughters. Sometimes we don’t know our own strength AND it facilitates other men striking our daughters later in life, God forbid. Children should be taught the difference in good and bad behaviors, and consequences thereto. And, moreover, your children should revere (respect) you, not FEAR you. If your children are obedient out of fear, then you’ve already lost the battle of parenting. Fear closes doors of open dialogue. You DO want your kids to come to you with ANYTHING that’s on their minds, don’t you? If they fear you and your reactions to their emotions and activities, then they’ll seek solace elsewhere. Become your child’s closest confidant, don’t shut them out in losing their respect for you.
I wish my parents actually cared
You’re absolutely right. God himself doesn’t force things on people. He gives choices and is polite to people.
We can’t judge the Peterson case fairly, which only made news due to the father being an NFL player, but trust the mother, doctor, and court acted fairly and for protection of the child.
Parenting requires doing what is best, and that requires knowing oneself and one’s child. Setting clear, concise and enforceable limits requires wisdom. For me, life and death consequences expanded my discipline options.
Judiciously used, spanking is effective. Spanking should not be used by a venting, angry parent. I said I would, and did spank my 4 year old child if she went onto the street, into the water, or went out of sight of me in stores. It hurt to do so, but she never ran across the street again. (She had ignored her grandmother’s order to stop running after a dog.) Reasoning via prior talks and rules had failed to stop the impulse. Many times after that we walked to the pavement’s edge and stopped frozen, stating the rule we hoped would never be broken or used. Same with the water.
Later the rule became ‘stopping & looking both ways’ and finally she was too old to spank (about 12) for she could be reasoned with and had the needed self-discipline. Piaget had it right with the timing of the end of concrete thinking.
My Dad was a career police officer, and the few ” whippings ” I received were disciplined affairs..just the sight of him removing his gun, cuffs, etc. from that gunbelt was enough to put the fear of God in me and the ten strokes were measured..he was never angry..it was justice as he saw it. With my three kids, when they would openly defy my authority or place themselves in danger, all I had to do was go out to my front yard and select a switch from a forsythia bush..the sound of it whipping through the air was half the battle..a few slight strokes on their clothed butts ended any overt rebellion fast. Were there a few pink marks on their lilly white rear ends? likely so, but never would I do this in anger, never break the skin and only do so when they openly defied me and left no option. Small kids do not respect the concept of losing priveleges.
I would not spank with my hands as in order to inflict enough pain to make the point, one might do internal damage. A sting will not harm a child, and all kids have to know when they have crossed the line into intolerable conduct. I thank God I was raised by calm and disciplined parents, who meted out just punishment when deserved without emotion or anger. My kids, now all grown, will occasionally remark about how the sound of that switch was at least as effective as the few stings they got from it. Parents who rely on talk only do their kids a disservice: in life, at some point the talk ends and only the reailty of a certain negative experience will convince them to change behavior..most important is to not discipline while angry. To paraphrase the Godfather:
Discipline is a dish best served cold.
Most care givers do not punish calmly. Most are angry and it only teaches them to fear you not respect you.
True
Sara: I am interested in your opinion on the following: Do you think that this the midemeanor child abuse statutes essentially criminalizes all physical discipline that leaves a mark (welt, red mark), however temporary? If so, how would you reconcile this with a parent’s fundamental constitutional right to the custody, care, and control of their children, including discipline?
Certainly a parent is not so small minded as to be unable to find another punishment lacking in effectiveness.
Right
Well, there are some Christian groups that advocate severer forms of corporal punishment based on their reading of certain Biblical passages. And anyhow, the afterlife is more valuable than the her and now. But when you find severe marks on the scrotum, I think the punishment actually qualifies as torture under international law, i.e. treaties that the US may also have signed although it lets its secret services get away with a lot by re-interpreting certain passages …
True
My son and I have been discussing this. If I were to spank, it would hurt my arthritic hand MUCH more than my 5yr old grandson’s butt. I was advising a rolled up magazine with only reasonable force. It worked for the brief period it was tried. However, my grandson is very skilled at screaming like he has been abused. I KNOW he has not been by my son or me. My grandson has been asked and has responded that no one else has spanked him. My grandson is a good boy, but can be quite rude, especially to his father. (to complicate matters, his father is now a paraplegic) He adores his father. I feel that he is trying to rebel and NEEDS to know that his daddy is still the boss. help – need advice
If he is rude, he needs to be asked to leave the company of whomever he has been rude to and go to his room or a corner or whatever place of isolation you establish until you tell him he can return. When he does return, you should remind him that if he wants to be with people he has to behave appropriately and require him to apologize. If he says he “didn’t do anything wrong,” you have to decide the next step: if he really doesn’t understand what he did wrong, you should explain it to him but not punish him further, but if he’s just being smart, he has to go back to a longer and more restrictive isolation, perhaps to bed for the night if it’s already past dinnertime.
I would NEVER hit a child. It is pathetic, disgusting and the definition of a bully. If you do not have the self-control or mental capacity to use a means of discipline that actually relates to the unwanted behavior in a meaningful way, then, please, don’t have children.
I fully agree with this comment. Physical discipline is the ‘easy way out’, so to speak. There are for more effective, less damaging punitive measures which can be enforced against a child’s behavior, such as the temporary removal of a toy. Additionally, an adequate explanation of why the behavior is poor must accompany any disciplinary action, otherwise a child may easily dismiss it as a parent’s mere aesthetic, that is, an unsupported sort of ‘oh that would be nice in the world’ idea, especially if the child is older than 9.
True
so me and my mom got into an argument, she ended up hitting me with 2 wooden spoons, and she bit me. all that ended up leaving 3 bruises and a bite mark. the way all this happened was by me not leaving the house when she kicked me out of my house. I’m 17.
Wow, that’s messed up.
You have a right to remain at home until 18, legally. But why would you remain under these circumstances? You can apply for the legal status of an “emancipated minor” and be eligible for assistance if you do not have a means of supporting yourself. You will also be eligible for housing and scholarships at college.
What bothers me is how much easier it seems for women to discipline her children like this than a man. If a man does it, he may have the cops called on him a lot easier. However, if the man of the house is disciplining, you can be sure the punishment will stick.
My ‘father’ abuses me and no one has reported it, so I don’t see the difference. Too scared to report anyway.
please report the abuse for yourself. Honestly, you can make a report completely anonymously. Call the local department of social services. I have reported, no one ever knew. the agency and the police acted, while never letting on who told!
To much stereotyping. Not all women are the same and not all men are the same. Abuse is abuse no matter so is doing it.
This may be a bit off subject, but if a 15 year old teen punches the parent to defend her/himself to either prevent or stop a richly-deserved spanking, even if the parent gave or intended to give a “legally” non-abusive spanking, can the parent have the teen legally removed the family home? In other words, do kids have a legal right to strike a parent to defend themselves from a parent’s corporal punishment simply because the kid refuses to accept it; and do parents have the right to remove the kid from the family home unless or until the kid accepts the corporal punishment?
Parents have a legal obligation for the safety and raising of their children until they reach the age of 18, so you cannot kick the child out.
However, a parent can contact police who can do a juvenile petition (it’s the way juveniles care charged in NC instead of the warrant/citation system), which results in a court date for the charges, and any punishment as sentenced by the judge, which can include removal from the home and being sent to various other organizations or group home environments, basically.
There’s no real immediate way to remove a juvenile from a home of a parent/guardian since the parent/guardian is legally required to care for the juvenile. The court system can mandate removal of a juvenile to another location, but it would be a while before that happens is the short answer.
15 year olds are too old for corporal punishment.
Could it be that corporal punishment teaches kids that the strongest person HD right? And we know that just because a person is stronger does’t mean they are right. They could be a bully.
You cannot remove a child from the home and send him to live in the street. If you believe that the child is out of control and you cannot maintain him at home in a way that is safe and comfortable both for him and the family, you must have him placed in an appropriate facility.
Corporal punishment for children is a tricky thing. A little bit can be a good, but it is easy for a parent to cross the line into abuse. These are just some thoughts I have:
1. A parent must never discipline when they are angry. I have heard some parents say you should always discipline soon after the child’s offense. I disagree, it should be put off until you are sure you aren’t reacting out of anger.
2. Single parents are more at risk. If you can discuss this kind of thing with your spouse first, its more likely to lead to a calmer and better outcome.
3. Its wrong to use an object to spank. The only reason I can come up with for using an object is that you really want to hurt the child. That is abusive to me.
4. Spanking should only be reserved for the worst or most serious things a child does like running into the street, harming others, or getting into trouble with the law. Offenses like lying, talking back, and sassing parents should be dealt with in another way.
When my kids were younger, I can count about ten times between all three of them when I felt it was necessary to give a spanking. I always carefully explained why they were getting a whooping. Only when I was sure that they understood why did they get spanked. The only thing I ever did that was controversial was pull down their pants (not underwear). I thought the little shame that caused was a positive thing and served as a reminder to them that they had screwed up. My dh was always there to either support me, or do the spanking himself. The kids always knew we were on the same team.
It worked for us. My kids grew up to be successful, loving people.
In short, there is a place for spanking when it comes to discipline, but you have to be really careful.
For all you smart people on this website who think spanking isn’t good for a child, let me tell you my story.
my child has a tendency to skip school, i have talked to him, taken his internet away, taken his cell phone away, grounded him to his room, and limited his access to certain friends, all over him not going to school.
now i just got out of jail, because my kid did not go to school, all because in his head he knew i would do nothing to him. the judge threw me in school, not the kid, and he is the one not going, even if i drop him off at school, he just runs out the back door.
on the other hand, my brother has spanked his kids, and never has any issues like this, nor has he gone to jail, soooooo…….. you all let me know what works and what doesn’t work.
sorry, the judge threw me in jail, not the kid, was supposed to be on the last post i made
Everybody on here is saying what the won’t do. Well I did and I got 3 years probation from whipping my then 9 year old boy. He knew how to manipulate his Father & Stepmother, to the point where everything I did and I said was wrong.He knew how to use the abuse charge against me, by keeping the case worker number at hand, who told him to call her every time he thinks I’m going to beat him( of course she is 23 years old). Throughout grade, middle, & high school he gave me trouble.I had him in football, counciling, church, everything I could and couldn’t afford all with no help from Dad.I had Pastors, Ministers, Lawyers, Coaches all talking & sharing stories with him. At 15 I sent my son with is Father to live with him one week later, my son was calling me to say her kids threatened him with a gun, his father punched him in the face. He had to run to a neighbor’s house to call me & stayed with her overnight. The cops were call by the neighbor the father was arrested but let go. They told the cops he was a troubled child…go figure… They both made a report, but when asked to take him they didn’t have enough room, when asked to come to the court the reply was” We just need someone to watch her” which was me.He was never ever removed from my home, the first month I seen Kathy everyother day. She never talked to me she talked at me. This women never had children didnt know the first thing about raising children, but she had the job fresh out of college. Well the charge stayed. But the end result, he did two years of college with a degree on his belt, now in Military doing well I may add. All this to say every charge is not warranted. He still comes home when he can to his MOTHER. Him & his Dad has very little contact.
Some kids will try to get away with what they can…
Yes it was a two parent home at one time. Yes me & his dad was married. No I never held him away from his dad..no never a woman scorned…
Any parent who has driven their child into a state where they feel physical discipline is necessary is not fit for parenting. The decisions a parent makes when raising their child have everything to do with the child’s behavior at all stages in the child’s life until adulthood. None other is to blame for a child’s misbehavior other than the parent, as the parent is the model for all behavior until the child is exposed to a significant number of other people, such as the beginning of prekindergarten. However, even after this exposure the parent remains the primary model for behavior, until the child begins to develop his or her own ability to make totally autonomous, independent decisions, which typically begins just before puberty. The type of disciplinary action used in early childhood is critical to the child’s development. Physical discipline inevitably ends in an angry emotional response. Additionally, physical pain may cause fear of the dispenser of said pain. Repeated instances of physical discipline will effectively train the child to respond with anger or fear in a situation in which “things don’t go their way”, for lack of a better phrase. Such a response is very dangerous, and often spirals, as generally relying on emotional responses to solve problems is ineffective. The ages of ten to twelve are also viewed as a point of no return of sorts by many child psychologists, because early learned behaviors are deeply rooted in neural pathways which become increasingly difficult to alter with age. Further, the childhoods of many criminals bear similarities, such as disturbed home lives in parents abused corporal punishment. Though these home lives are often accompanied by other factors which also contribute to poor development of the child, the abuse of corporal punishment is present in almost every case. A reasonable conclusion is that poor behaviors, which a parent may feel physical discipline is necessary to correct, can be avoided altogether with a raised sense of the parent’s responsibility for their young child’s actions, further supported by an additional awareness of the child’s future actions.
Thanks of all responses you are most accurate. For me now at 62 years old I have been perplexed for long time about my dad’s discipline when I was a child. Repeated whippings requiring I pull down my pants and he would grab he forcefully over his thighs and would scream in anger whipping my but and legs with whip many times. It was very painful. Then he would yell go to your bedroom and I was grounded for 2 weeks. These multiple unwarranted techniques were from things like a swear word, hitting my little sister alittle bit, lighting a fire racker in the street, back talk to my mom etc never would he discuss the matter with me effectively and he got away with it causing in going separation between my parents and me. He was a very strict self righteous catholic. I recall way to much chaos in the home growing up. My mom was very nervous alot and never saw parents share and love hugging or kissing my 3 other siblings have no recall of my whippings. I would venture to say I was older than 12 upon last whipping. They always left huge bruises and welts. I was to you and afraid to know how to process this discipline with no one to talk to. So I learned to internalize matters with no form of phycological resolution. I ended up living a high risk lifestyle experimenting with drinking and drugs at 16. I left home at 18 after him finding pit in my room. I have moved on 35 times in adulthood having over 16 jobs and never finished colleges due to wanting to party always.8 years after marriage with a 7 year old son I started going to AA meetings and not have had a drink in 21 years now but have been taking opiates many years for many causes. Now addicted and fear withdtawl symptoms if stopped also increasing back pain. I have a great 30yr old son that I never needed to discipline ever. A blessing to my x wife and me. I have long wondered the ultimate long term effects of harsh abusive whipping when growing up specifically in regards to being predisposed to pain pill addiction. at 62 I am worried as have needed to stop taking opiates a couple times in past enduring long depression/anxiety periods. I would from experience that I’m not sure that I would make it through another time. So I am in a quandary as to how to proceed.
Concerned Citizen, the parent is NOT to blame for all of a kid’s misbehavior. Kids are born to push limits because they don’t know any limits yet. They will push and push and push (bad behavior) until they are shown/told what the limits are. Talkiing doesn’t always sink in. You are wrong to blame parents for their kid’s behavior. That is true if a parent doesn’t effectively set boundaries, but only then. And even with clear boundaries, some kids will do what they want no matter what. I know, I was one of those kids. My parents were good parents, but I still got in trouble because I was stubborn and arrogant as a child/teenager. I was stupid. So be fair.
Violence is wrong. Hitting is wrong. Might doesn’t make right. And no case law can ever make that determination. Numerous studies and large amounts of longitudinal data show us that abuse including physical spanking that leaves no marks and only requires simple first aid (???? So I cld punch the local superintendent in the eye and if all he needed after was an ice pack it would be ok????) leaves life long injuries and that people w any abuse but especially physical abuse go on to have problems w depression, anxiety, learning problems, relational problems – not 100% that the data can capture but much more than Wld be expected by prevalence and incidence data and stronger statistical power than is required to draw such conclusions. Studies have shown that even name calling by peers interferes with the development of the brain. Look up what The American Academy of Pediatrics says abt this subject as well as The American
Academy Child and AdolescentPsychiatry reports and the CDCs reports on prolonged trauma on children etc etc etc. The evidence is irrefutable. And that’s before we discuss issues like if people spank they are initiating a culture of violence in their home and it is easy to do so most then never learn other ways to discipline their children or train them. And no one learns to control anger. It is that simple. And as we watch the increasing rates of bullying and abuse increase dramatically ( including elder abuse which is directly related to whether or not the elder parent physically disciplined the child in childhood. Maybe that will get some folks to pay attention ). Just Bc you think it didn’t hurt you doesn’t mean you didn’t have negative consequences. But the evidence again is irrefutable – it is beyond a reasonable doubt. So I am not sure what it will take for it to become clear and convincing given the preponderance of evidence. I was a strict mom. I didn’t hit my children. We didn’t hit each other. They all turned out brave respectful and kind adult men. Successful as well. Discipline means self discipline to teach by example and it means training. The sparing the rod American Christians like to speak about is at odds with the 23rd psalm. Thy rod and thy staff comfort me. The rod was used to keep sheep from falling off a cliff or to beat away predators etc. Why is it ok to train a child w corporal punishment but not Adults? Who would say that’s ok? No one w sense in their heads or a brain or who just observes and reads. It is amazingly too much stupid that this remains a topic of discussion. It’s not like the tooth fairy. It’s fact.
Whenever the spanking or paddling of a child leaves marks on the child’s buttocks, there’s a good chance that CPS case workers will get involved. I’m not talking about clear cut abusive markings, but CPS opinions of abuse. Historically speaking, do CPS case workers have differnt threshholds for child abuse when the marks on the buttocks resulted from school punishments (where allowed by state law), rather than from parental discipline?
Stated differently and more simplistically, do the “records” show that CPS allows school officials to mark a child’s buttock more severely than mom’s or dad’s markings before a finding of abuse is rendered?
From another angle, when issues of abuse are adjudicated, do court records show a higher acquital percentage for school officials than for parents?
I was spanked plenty as a child (bare butt with a belt) as were my siblings and, later, my son. He’s now 19 and is grateful for how we disciplined him, as my siblings and I are grateful to our parents. Kids know when a spanking is given in a loving way or not.
If you are so aware of this punishment being helpful, then I don’t think that the spanking was necessary. The spanking did not teach you how to understand that it was helpful, and to be honest I think you were influenced by the power of suggestion.
i’m thirteen.
discipline is dependant upon family background. what parents are used to exist within them. indirectly, they teach it to their kids through exposing their kids to it.
i get spankings with the belt. i see a lot of what has been said.
fear can be put into kids from beatings, especially if they have been experiencing it almost all their lives. they are painful and SOMETIMES unethical, depending on the situation.
fear has put a little wall in between my communication with my dad because of these “disciplinary actions”.
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honestly, when you deal with stuff like this, it’s hard to discern (at the time while you’re growing up) the difference between abuse and discipline.
i’ve told myself that i won’t beat my kids–not often. the thing about waiting to spank your child “out of love” only puts more fear into a young child’s mind. they end up getting fearful and scared.
not to mention, as a teen, it is pretty hard to own up to what’s happening at home if it’s brought into the light. if you’ve been living with it since you were little (as i have) it makes it difficult to work it out in your brain because that’s all the disciplinary action you’ve ever known…it makes it difficult for you to transition from child to teen…
i have often found myself procrastinating in worry that i run into one of my parents and i’m not doing something “just right”. which leads to more problems–immediate and future.
Hitting any child is ridiculous and abuse in itself. Hitting means there is no other way but to lay a hand on someone. I was raised and the eldest of 9 boys and 1 girl and we were never hit. Punishment\discipline consisted of (varying as we grew in age): 1. sitting, 2. sitting and reading, or drawing, 3. education, 4. and one crazy thing my dad did I thought was extreme– I would not like to sit and stay seated until I asked or was allowed to get up. My dad used his belt to strap me into chair until I conceded then started asking “may i get up now daddy.” That had taken all of about hour he told me. I was 4 years old then. Was this extreme? I don’t think so now. And I recall how much fun we had that day. Another time at 7 he heard me speak inappropriate word. Here he stuck one of those Mexican super hot peppers in my mouth while he held my mouth closed for 1-2 min. To this very day, age 61, what a beautiful language we have without serving up inappropriate words. 🙂 Unfortunately, I love those hot-peppers now.
Most of what you’re describing sounds reasonable, but the pepper episode does not –chiefly because he had to forcibly hold your mouth closed, and also because of the extreme length of time (2 minutes as opposed to 10 or 15 seconds, which would have done the job). What probably would have been better, assuming you said the word knowing it was wrong and had been warned about it previously, would be to require you to remain silent for a certain time, or until you were told you could speak, or for the rest of the event (that is, say, during tonight’s dinner). The idea of this would be that if you want to participate in family discussions you have to do so with appropriate language.
I want to know if you think its ok to pinch a male childs pecks as a form of discipline. Where the child crys and wiggles around rubbing it.
Ok-my 7 year old son was told by my husband (his daddy) that if he got in trouble at school one more time for bad behaviour, he would get a whopping -spanking-well he did, and my husband spanked him, but my son jumped around so much during the spanking that my husband’s hand hit his lower back above his bottom, and did leave a bruise there….I am pissed off,even if it was an accident and am fearful that DHR services may see that as neglect.And Even though I know it wasn’t intentional, I am still upset. My son is fine, but I am in (Mama-dog) mode
I just watched some sow smack a 5 year old kid with a large serving spoon over and over at a Panera. This went on for over 20 minutes with multiple breaks, Not Nonstop. No one else in the place seemed to think it was out of line and when I spoke to the manager, he threatened to throw me out if I interfered. “The kid was acting up.”
While granted, she was not killing the kid, she was terrorizing him without stop.
I am not anti-spanking, but I am anti-meltdown spanking and this sow was having a meltdown.
1. No kid should be hit repeatedly.
2. No scene in a public place. It ramps things up too much.
3. Count to 100 and calm yourself down. You out of control is not a good thing.
4. Make sure the kid is not acting up because of illness. Little kids only
convey thing a few different ways. Quit treating them like Mini-adults.
I can’t tell you how many times I have seen jerks throwing a fit with an
obviously sick child. And remember just because you have to handle a twelve
hour hectic day, doesn’t mean your child can handle it as well.
5. In the event your child actually is a 24/7 misbehaving Spawn of Satan, get some
professional help. There may be something medical or Psyiological or Emotional
behind the behavior.
Kids react to Surroundings, Food and other stimuli far different than adults do.
Doug, I agree! OMG, who continues on and on for 20 minutes? That is bullying and is wrong!
Disclaimer: I am a 13 year old kid so my writing here is probably not going to be top notch. This didn’t take me very long as I am a very strong believer and knew what to say as I was writing it.
I think that it is horrible for a parent to physically injure a child no matter what occurred. A spanking is not the correct way to inflict a punishment on your child, as any pain is temporary and if permanent then it is considered abusive. A much more effective way to discipline your child is to “ground” the child or take away something that they really enjoy. Examples include: A videogame, time out with friends, a sport, a bike, or really anything that they enjoy doing and could do for hours. While a spanking is short lasting, and you rarely notice it a little after, loosing the privilege to do something that you enjoy doing (for something like a week) will teach kids to follow the rules. If a kid wants something as in a new bike or computer ETC, and you refuse this, the argument should not just end there. If you as a parent simply say something like, “Because I said so” or “Don’t talk back” or even “Because I am the parent and you are the child” your child will NEVER learn better. Not only does a child deserve an explanation, but a conversation on the topic will actually convince your child to accept your answer.
*What you do not want to do:*
Child: “Mom, can I please buy this video game”?
Mom: “No”.
Child: “But why, it is only $10”!
Mom: “Because I said so”.
Child: “Is that your only reason why I can’t get this game”?
Mom: “Don’t talk back to me”
The mother in this example is using only authority, which is not going to get your child anywhere. Something that I experienced a lot as as a child is that dreaded common phrase: “Don’t talk back to me”. This got me so upset as a kid as I found no logic and no reasoning in that phrase. If a parent asks you a question that only has an answer that may offend them, what do you do? If you decide to answer them truthfully, you get a spankin’. If you don’t answer them at all, you get a spankin’. If you decide to tell them why you would rather not answer, they demand you answer and then when you do… you get a spankin’. So the child finds that the only way to answer this question without getting punished is by lying. And what do you know; when you lie to a parent, what do you think you receive. That’s right, a good o’l spankin’. I believed and still do believe that for these reasons, “Don’t talk back to me” is a terrible way of answering your child. I realize that I am probably getting off topic, but I want to prove my point.
*What you should do instead:*
Child: “Mom, can I please buy this game”.
Mom: “No”.
Child: “But why, it’s only 10 dollars”!
Mom: “You have to realize that you don’t always get what you want in life. If you begin spending all of your money on what you want now, you will not have any money to support yourself and give yourself what you need later on. If I spent $10 every day for things like plushies, I would not be able to have food on my table or a car to move around in”.
Give your child some time to think about what you said. For other situations unlike this, you may want to prove to yourself that you are right since you answered “No” so confidently. Instead of getting agitated at your child’s curiosity, embrace it and consider their side of the story. For other situations you may find that your child makes a valid point and that it may be better to arrange a deal or a change in rules for the greater good.
Now onto my last point that I think is very important to take notice of. If you create rules (which is a big step towards proper parenting), you often want to enforce these rules. You want your child to respect the rules and follow them because they should influence your child positively. The biggest mistake that parents make when enforcing rules is when you as a parent break those rules that you made. If these rules control the children, it is only fair that you follow the rules as well. Otherwise, your parental system is basically a monarchy which ended many centuries ago. You must follow your own rules as your child will always look up to you and follow in your foot steps. It is the same concept of how humans came to creating language and sounds that they could produce. They copy the sounds of their surroundings, and add them together to make new sounds.
“It’s not our job to toughen our children up to face a cruel and heartless world. It’s our job to raise children who will make the world a little less cruel and heartless” -L.R. Knost
“Great leaders never accept the world as it was and always work for the world as it should be” -Condoleezza Rice
I made this one up myself using some other quotes to help guide me: “Do not try to break the rules but merely test their fidelity” -Me
I hope that if you are a parent reading this you find this helpful because I hope that this changes how some children are treated. I put some time into this as I saw that people in the comments section simply complained or told a story. I just decided to go into detail, so if you read this all the way to the end, thank you for your time. Goodbye for now (sorry for any grammatical or spelling mistakes, I’m only 13).
The content of your proposals, the logic of your argumentation, and your writing style are all superior to those of most adults. I say this as an English teacher.
Great job, Moral!!! Smartest thing I’ve read so far! Great job!
The best way to discipline a child is to talk to them. Then set up a non-physical punishment. Spanking, not BEATING, should only be used when necessary.
So it’s okay to spank a child with a 2×4 till it breaks?
No way. Sounds and would probably feel like abuse.
I only spank my kids when necessary and after grounding or standing in the corner hasn’t helped, the other day me and my 4 kids were at Wal-Mart and my oldest son age 9 was repeatedly taking things off the shelves, he opened some nail polish and dropped it causing it to splatter all over the aisle, and after I repeatedly told him to stop he only continued, when we were checking out he started taking candy of the shelves so I told him he is standing in the corner when we got home for not listening, we got out to the van and on the way home and started kicking the van of the seats. Once we got home I stood him in the corner and he started moving and hitting the walls so I decided he was getting spanked for it. I have a ton of patience and never take my anger out in my children. We went to his room to spank him and I use a belt only bc my son laughs when he is spanked and using my hand only hurts me and he thinks it’s funny, he laid over his bed and I told him he was getting 4 spankens, I only spank on the bottom, after two swats he started to get up as I was spanked him the third time and I accidentally hit the back of his thigh and when he moved his body got closer to the belt than intended so the hit was a little harder than expected and it left a welt on this leg, I apologized and told him it was an accident bc he moved. I went to my room and cried bc that had never happened before, the next day it was a small bruise. He went to school and told his counselor I left a bruise on him and she reported it to cps and I am now being investigated. Can I please get input on this situation? I would never abuse my children.. Has this ever happened to anyone before?
My daughter in law slapped my 3 year old grandson in the mouth for saying the word ain’t, I immediately told her she shouldn’t have done that and it almost caysed a fight between us. She screamed at me that he was her child and she would do whatever she wanted to to him. Ever since I have been extremely worried that she abuses my grandson since it was so easy for her to slap him and given the reason she slapped him. Would slapping a 3 year old in the mouth be considered abuse?
Yes. 3 year olds aren’t tough enough to handle stuff like that. T_T
First of all, of course she shouldn’t slap him on the mouth for any word. But the word “ain’t” isn’t a curse word nor an insult to anyone — it’s just a grammatical mistake, and all she has to do is point it out to him and make him say the sentence again without it. If she’s done this several times and he still forgets, perhaps make him repeat the sentence a few times correctly (a few, like 3 or 5, not hundreds!) Or sometimes all that is needed is some humor: when I was a little girl, I beat my brother at some game and boasted, “I won him!” My father asked me, “You won him? Where are you going to put him?” I got the point and never made this mistake again — and grew up to be an English teacher who is often consulted by my fellow English teacher on minor issues in grammar. And I still remember this incident clearly and fondly.
I have a question. What happens if your 16 year old punches her mom in the face several times with her fists just because the mom was getting ready to spank her
Probably a sign that she’s too old to spank and she knows it. But of course she can’t be allowed to get away with hitting you either. Make the punishment fit the crime: since she tried to hit you, she is violent and you’re afraid of her. Therefore, you won’t have anything to do with her. I don’t mean neglecting her: leave her dinner for her to eat, but at a different time or place from the rest of the family. Leave breakfast and whatever she needs for school where she can find it. Just don’t talk to her, don’t show her any affection, don’t involve her in family activities, and make a point of standing far away from her when you must be in the same room. Eventually (whether this takes hours or days depends on her temperament), she will realize the enormity of what she did and will apologize and beg you to forgive her. Then you can have a great conversation and work together on developing what you both would see as more constructive forms of discipline than spanking her and more effective ways for her to communicate with you than by hitting you.
IF WE BEAT CHILDREN FOR DOING WRONG AND WE HAVE THAT POWER, THEN IT IS NOT THAT WE WANT THE CHILD TO DO BETTER BUT WE BEAT THE CHILD BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT OBEY US. BECAUSE NO ONE HERE IS EVEN ASKING HOW DOES A CHILD’S BRAIN DEVELOPED. WHY DO THEY FORGET SO SOON. I THINK THIS IS WHY MEN BEAT WOMEN ALSO. BECAUSE SHE DOES NOT OBEY HER MAN. I THINK THIS IS WHY OLD PEOPLE WHO CAN’T THINK OR REASON WELL GET HIT IN NURSING HOMES ALSO. IT’S ALL ABOUT POWER. A HUMAN BEING IS ENVELOPING FROM BIRTH TILL THE DAY THEY DIE THEY WILL MAKE MISTAKES. IF WE BELIEVE THAT THERE IS A GOD WE SHOULD TEACH HIS CHILDREN THE WAY HE WOULD. I DO NOT BELIEVE A CHILD HAS TO BE HIT.
Ok so my parents don’t hit me but I can’t leave my house unless I’m going to school, my parents constantly say things like “you have an ugly laugh” “you don’t have a boyfriend because your fat (at 5’4 I’m 95 pounds!)” and I can’t have my money, which I actually had a job to earn, and they threaten to destroy my stuff, which I bought with the money I hid so that I could have things of my own. Oh and when my parents found I out I was a cutter and I had attempted suicide they yelled “Get the fuck out of my house I can’t handle the person you are.” I hate coming home from school and I’m looking to get legally emancipated but I don’t know if I have a case that could work.
My dad has always used extreme sarcasm with me whenever I’m in trouble for as long as I can remember. Is that verbal abuse?
nope but if he is saying things that would make you cry or saying things that you have remeberd for years, yes it is verbal abuse it was happens to me.
I’m not a lawyer, but your case sounds good for me. But you didn’t mention your age. Generally, legal emancipation can happen at the age of 16 or 17, and your having a job makes your case even stronger. If you are 13 or 14, though, it is much less likely. You are definitely being verbally abused, though; driving you to the point of suicide and then ordering you out of the house is certainly not good parenting.
Well I’ve been hit with a hand, belt, fist, book, etc and iy really hurts. I’m just a teenager whose searching if what my parents do is actually legal. I’ve haf a scarring life and I’m only 15. I just want life to be not getting slapped in thr face or being told i stink or am stupid. I’m strong and never cry but once my mom started, not just physically but emotionally hurting me I’ve been crying. Felt weird crying for the first time in 10 years. All i want to know is if what i go through is legal or not. My parents do do more though.
I am so, so sorry for your hardships;(. It appears that you are being treated wrongfully, and if your parents cannot realize how mistaken they are, then I think that you should call CPS. If you think that an adult whom you trust can successfully intervene, and convince your parents to cease these unfairly harsh actions, then maybe you would prefer to start there. Yuu don’t deserve this treatment.
Mya im close to your age and im going through that to well not the whip or smack in the face thing . They may punch you in the arm and scream at you then when they are gone you start to cry and feel bad for yourself . But the best thing to do is to pull your mom and dad aside and tell them when you call me a name such as stupid or retard that its putting you in a spot where I feel like the beating or discipline is tuning to hate and its hard to picture you two hating me. And it hurts its not stopping me from doing what ever i did wrong its making me scared that you will hurt me to where you will want to kill me.Im happy to help if this did your parents love you I really do know how it feels best thing is and this is what I do I watch youtube or I make a youtube video or come to this site and here others stories it helps dont look up is it legall or not it is plain and simple but if they do it with out reon then call the police and leave a tip if they come and dont stop call them telling them why you are .
Ok all of you out there, how about you see this from a stand point of a 14 year old male. Most of you are right hitting you kid to the point were they bleed is plain messed up . He was 4 he should of got a hit on the hands and then told no. I used to get hit with a stick covered in duct tape you may be thinking oh my god thats so bad but no you see they hit me to where it did hurt bad but it onlyleft a welt and nt a big one . im 14 so I don’t get hit for my screw ups but i get punched in the chest and or arm . I feel sometimes scared that he will hit me with full force so its not the punch thats hurts its will he lose it it and hurt or kill me . the reson I say im 14 so much is because i want people to understand that im a older kid but say i was 11 he would never hurt me he would never punch me only spanks good and hard on your knees and or legs that worked I never had welts. Lets take a moment to look at both sides
Gets hit with a belt and or shoe or other = scared of item not you they will grow up to understand life is not about you not getting everything it is not all love and crap.
never gets hit = grows up like my friend and says no to parents.
Moms dads grandmas papas DONT ever hit your kid unless you made it clear that they did something wrong tell them what they did don’t just hit them and walk away you must tell them .Also hitting a 4 year old like that [removed by editor].
I am 21 yr old 2nd yr btech student. My father has been beating me up for no reason since childhood till date. I have been tortured both mentally and physically. If he doesn’t get to take out his reasonless grudge on me then he does it to my mother. She is a bronchitis patient, she has been abstained from medical treatment and medicine,she also has to do the household jobs herself and no maids are kept to assist her,even in sickness she has to work otherwise that man tortures her for that too. Even today I was being beaten up by him and the reason was that I closed a window near the bed while I was sitting there getting mosquito bites. I tried attempting suicides many times but ended up quitting the idea just because of my sick mom. We are even told by him to die away from the house coz he doesn’t want to bear the burden of our dead corpse too.
Hello my name is Dylan and just earlier today as of July 5 my father choked and threatened to kill me. My father and my sister live in a back shed that we keep in the backyard so they will always have a way to have a source of power while one night which was actually last night before this happened my mother decided to put a lock on the back door and my father did not like it so he came to our house barged in and started ranting and raving about my mom another being a whore and excetera when it comes to stuff like this it made me really mad. I got triggered badly and all I did was stand up really quickly but in an aggravated tone though I don’t remember much of it I don’t remember lunging of them or swinging my fist at him but instead I know that he got into my way and started hitting me and then putting me in a choke hold it wasn’t for my sister then I would have died. And after that I was told to go to my room from my sister Holly then when I was in there my dad started following me and turned me around roughly threatening to kill me threaten to beat me down and telling me awful things saying I won’t be able to hold a job and I’m worthless and he wants a reason to kill me which I know that far too well. The think about my condition is I can’t really work or hold a job right now because I have a birth defect with in my chest that my chest is slowly caving in and puncturing my heart so a bar was implanted into my chest to make sure that I would be able to breathe like a normal person and that way things will be nice and normal for me so I do have a reason to not be able to work even though I’m 18. Problem about this is my sister Alyssa who lives with him he’s always siding with him acting like he’s nothing but a god or he’s a part of his own religion or whatever because my father always feeds her lies. When the worst things that actually may be mad about them is especially when he accused me of me just wanting and excuse my language just wanting my girlfriends vagina where in reality that’s not what I want or instead I just want to have a normal relationship with a person that respect me and loves me instead of having an abusive father. The thing is my father has never acted this way before though yes he does drink and does smoke marijuana he’s never acted so violently before especially towards me I’ve always been nice to him but for some reason apparently that’s just not enough for him. Next week we have to do if court with someone else and he has to be a part of it but I was told that even if he doesn’t participate he will be arrested for not going to the court. And it’s taking me everything within my soul and beans and not try to do anything else start more conflict. So if I may ask is it bad that I just wanted to defend my mother even though he choked me? Did I do the right thing and will he actually be arrested if he doesn’t attend court? I would like to get an answer soon as possible please and thank you.
And what should I do?
My dad spanked my brother and sister about 25 times before is that abuse
My mother’s use of corporal punishment was pretty much limited to run of the mill, hand-on-butt spankings until my dad suddenly passed when I was 11 and she spent the next 7 years seeking enlightenment in a bottle of gin. Although short, she was an obese woman who would knock me to the floor with her bowling ball-like heft, kicking me, clawing me, pulling my hair…she particularly relished hitting me with hard inanimate objects on my scalp to avoid visible bruises. High heeled shoes, electrical cords, phone receivers (sometimes the whole princess phone…it was the 80’s, after all), the back of hair brushes, sometimes the sharp, nylon bristled end (to this day, I can’t see the Goody logo without flinching)…the sky was the limit. She became addicted to the sadistic rush she got from beating someone who was too defenseless to fight back. Once she thought she detected a “tone” in my voice so bit my hand hard enough to draw blood as my friends watched in slack jawed horror. That was the last time I ever invited friends over again.
The worst part was growing up thinking it was normal, that if someone “loved” you, they’d knock you into next Tuesday…it was “for my own good”, after all. At 16, I finally towered over my mother and, once my boyfriend taught me to defend myself and she realized I could and would beat the brakes off her if she laid a hand on me, the physical abuse stopped. She kept up with her nasty emotional abuse (“what man would hitch his wagon to THIS…?!” she’d hiss at me) but it only made me study harder so I could GTFO after graduation (this was important to her…she couldn’t wait to brag about what a great and brilliant mother she was to have a daughter at such a prestigious institution of higher education). I ended up graduating from the #1 public university in the country and am probably more successful than most, but I HATE my mother for what she did to me and LAUGH every time she laments that she’ll never have grandchildren…her chickens have finally come home to roost! I am 42, still single, and the fact that only 2 of my 10 failed relationships has not involved pervasive domestic abuse has finally made me realize I needed therapy. Beatings = “love”, right, mom? I have also been diagnosed with anxiety disorder and depression…I was always popular growing up and am still surrounded by friends, but no one knows how empty and angry I feel inside or how deeply I resent my mother and yearn for the childhood I never had. Not surprisingly, that bitch STILL won’t apologize, “doesn’t want to hear it”, and says she has to go because there’s always “someone on the other line”. Since I froze my eggs, I can still have kids…I just don’t know if I will. The only thing I know for sure is, if I do, I’m going to be the mom that I needed when I was a kid and it won’t involve my mother’s Jerry Springer-style, poor white trash corporal punishment tactics.
Missypalooza, I feel your pain, I’ve been there. I also very much admire the way you overcame it, and dealt with it later. My hat is off to you. My dad did try to apologize when he thought I was going to beat my son. I told him I was gonna raise my son the same way. Since he done such a fine job. That was my revenge. I let him think that I beat my son, like he did me. My son is 24, and I spanked him 3 times his whole life, with my hand on his bottom. Even on his death bed my dad was trying to tell me he was wrong. I never told him the truth. I wanted him to think I beat my son the same way, because I saw how much it hurt him. I’m still not able to forgive him.
my father punched my in the face and on the inside of my cheek started bleeding but it has heeled now. what would happen if I called the police and told them about this?
My name is is Marie I live in N.C. on March 8th, 2018 9: a.m. i was in walmart cashing out. My 2 yr old tried to still candy i popped her hand twice said no,no, mama and put the candy back. Yet a walmart manager put her nose in my private matters with my child and called the cops reporting i beat my child. I waighted untill the cops got there and they seen the footage and obviously it was unfounded the manager lied. Then that was not good on march 16th 2018 i get a call from child protective services needing to do a welfare check on my kids they set it for march 17th 2018 at 2:00 pm i said ok. Well at 7:30 a.m march 17th i wake up to boom, boom, boom, open the door. I jump up open the door and lord behold theres child protective services, cops and sheriff yet the law enforcement is only there aiding these child protective service worker. I live this hole crime on facebook you can look the footages up im on there as marie cruz. so i get my babies out of there with the babysitter and the worker goes to the magistrate with an affidavit no evidence the magistrate at 12:57 sighns there pettion then that same magistrate sighns there order to take my kids without evidence . they find my kids at 1:11 pm at the park police, cps, snatch my kids up without giving there orders to anybody . so my kids are missing on march 17th 2018. well on march 19th i win my kids back the judge tells those workers return my kids. well the order was dissolved not the petion. i got to cout april 27th 2018 these workers file a notice of voluntary dismisal i sighned a docuement i didnt understand my lawyer read it to me then said sighn it cause i cannot read good. well i kept asking questions nobody would answwer just sighn i was told. well my kids dad is spanish there was no inturipater . i sighn and was so decieved now as i sit today wrighting this for all to know im going to revoke my consent this happened in onslow county North Carolina i live in beulaville North Carolina .. Ive posted so far one video on U-tube there will be more. My case is still happening May 6th, 2018 I will not stop till i expose this corruption that is being comitted on the parents. Sorry about my spelling . God-Bless to all.
Spanking that includes removing clothing can be and often is sexual abuse. The forced clothing removal is psychologically no different than a rape, the victim feels helpless, and their intimate body area being expose creates sexual humiliation and trauma. Especially sexually damaging for opposite gender parent and child when much past age 6 or 7. The touching can also sexually arouse the child and this is clearly sexual abuse! The result can be creation of sadomasochistic desires which is in reality a sexual addiction the child must live with the rest of their life! Sadly many parents live with their spanking fetishes from this sexual abuse hidden in spankings they were traumatized and aroused by in their childhoods. Not only do they have this spanking fetish sexual addiction which they find a need to have fulfilled in their intimate life with a consenting partner, but they can and do find extra ordinary incentive to spank their children when they believe they need to punishment them because it gratifies their own sexual addiction with spanking, and the sexual abuse cycle repeats itself being completely legal and in secret!
hey if you are hit in ur face and you cough out blood and you are bleeding out of your face and you have a black eye is that abuse
My dad made me put clothes on, mom would tell me to pull pants down, but it had nothing to do with sexual abuse. I had callous’s from my dad’s whippings. Pants down was only way mom could even hurt me a little. But it was very rare for her to whip me. So clothes off doesn’t necessarily mean anything, except they want to make sure you feel it.
I understand and agree with your interpretation. If wives want to know why so many of their husbands are cold and emotionless creatures it probably has a lot to do with the pants off paddlings from their moms.
Is forcing your child to eat chili child abuse??
no lmaoooooooo, if he doesnt like chili he should be disiplined, jkjk but for real tho no dont let them say its abuse your making them eat food bruh come on.
It should also be illegal to show physical affection because it teaches children to become sexualized and to sexualize their feelings. It should be illegal to lie to children about Santa because it teaches them to trick people also. It should be illegal to have children to do chores, because then they think their value is what they accomplish, instead of who they are on the inside. It should be illegal to make children go to school because they are then taught to conform to whatever modern standard is being passed around. It should be illegal for people to have mental issues also, because then they get drug prescriptions that they can’t recover from. … It turns out that modern standards have the worst statistics for teenage behavior yet. Go figure.
I was whipped regularly until I left home at 17. Dad never hit me except when whipping me. I don’t care if they say ‘ well his dad beat him like that also’. That’s no excuse. I spanked my son 3 times in total. My hand on his bottom. My beatings just made me afraid of my dad. It’s hard to love someone that you are scared to death of. Even if they think they are doing the right thing. I never want my son to fear me.
I raised my children as a single mother. While I tried to avoid it, there were times when I thought it was necessary to whip my children. I mostly used my hand, but I admit there were a few times I used a belt. What I found most effective was to sit my misbehaving child down and explain to them the seriousness of behavior like lying, stealing, or (in one case) destroying the property of another. After the explanation, I would make take their pants down and I would bend them over my knee. Than I would spank just hard enough that there would be some tears and genuine regret. I don’t think there was ever a bruise left on any of my children. Now, that they are grown I have a great relationship with them. Spanking can be overdone and result in abuse. Used appropriately, its a reasonable thing for a parent to do.
At what age is physical discipline impermissible? In Texas, for instance, the law expressly forbids it for one who has turned 18. About 25 years ago, a Michigan mother was acquitted for slapping her 18-year-old daughter. She claimed parental discipline as a justification. My reading of Michigan law lists parental discipline as an affirmative defense to child abuse, but one must be under the age of 18 for that statute to apply. If an 18-year-old living at home can be physically disciplined, can a 28-year-old?